Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/pc/text/spacedig/v13_1/v13_124.txt

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Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #124

SPACE Digest                                     Volume 13 : Issue 124

Today's Topics:
          More Exciting Space News From WWN!
               * SpaceNews  04-Feb-91 *
              Re: SPACE Digest V13 #082

Administrivia:

    Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to
  [e-mail].  Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests,
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Date: 3 Feb 91 23:34:48 GMT
From: zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi![e-mail]  (Jim Kasprzak)
Organization: The Big Wedge
Subject: More Exciting Space News From WWN!
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 Those of you who enjoyed the Weekly World News transcripts of the
purported last conversation of the Challenger crew may want to check
out this week's issue. The headline story: "FACE ON MARS IS TRYING
TO TALK! The lips are moving, say stunned scientists!"

 I didn't check to see if it had any sidebars or graphs.
--
 Jim Kasprzak          [e-mail] (internet)
 RPI, Troy, NY         [e-mail]
 "A spirit with a vision is a dream with a mission."  -Rush

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Date: 2 Feb 91 02:07:49 GMT
From: ka2qhd![e-mail]  (John Magliacane)
Organization: KA2QHD - OCEAN NJ
Subject: * SpaceNews  04-Feb-91 *
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SB SPACE @ ALLBBS < KD2BD $SPC0204
* SpaceNews  04-Feb-91 *

Bulletin ID: $SPC0204


                              =========
                              SpaceNews
                              =========

                       MONDAY FEBRUARY 4, 1991

SpaceNews originates at KD2BD in Wall Township, New Jersey, USA.  It
is published every week and is made available for unlimited distribution.



* U2MIR-1 NEWS *
================
Packet Radio (AX.25) communications from Mir appear to be taking place
on a regular basis over a frequency of 145.550 MHz.  A brief connection
with U2MIR-1 was made by KD2BD on 28-Jan-91 at 16:59:25 UTC using an
indoor 4-element quagi and 7 watts of transmitter power.  Signals from
Mir are STRONG.  U2MIR is probably running at a power level of 20 watts.

A large number of stations have been able to connect with Mir.  The TNC
in use on Mir can be said to have a very short "fuse".  Packets are sent
very rapidly, and if acknowlegements are not received within a short
period of time, U2MIR-1 sends disconnect frames and clears its buffers
through its unprotocol address (CQ).  Groundstations can also digipeat
through either U2MIR or U2MIR-1.

Once connected to U2MIR-1, the BBS responds as follows:

  Logged on to U2MIR's Personal Message System

  CMD(B/H/J/K/KM/L/M/R/S/SR/V/?)>

Successful mail sessions are ended with a response such as:

  Message saved as Msg # 78

The U2MIR-1 BBS also keeps a journal of all stations heard and
connected to, but the clock and calendar of this function does
not yet seem to be set.  For example, log listings are given as:

  KA9NMD         00/00/00 00:00
  KD2BD          00/00/00 00:00

Stations wishing to connect with U2MIR-1 should bear in mind that Musa
may come on voice at any time, so it is considered a BAD practice to
send connect packets until packet signals from U2MIR are first heard.
There also seems to be a very large variation in downlink signals from
Mir.  It is sometimes helpful to open your receiver squelch during
weak signal periods to prevent your TNC from sending packets and exceeding
its retry count without having a chance of being heard by U2MIR due to
changes in spacecraft attitude and the resulting QSB.  Programmable
transceivers should be used to transmit 5 KHz lower and receive 5 KHz
higher than 145.550 MHz at the time of AOS, move to 145.550 MHz at TCA,
and receive low and transmit high until LOS, in order to compensate for
doppler effect.


* NOAA SATELLITES *
===================
NOAA weather satellites transmit weather images taken in both visible
and infra-red light from low-Earth orbit on a regular basis.  NOAA-12
is expected to be launched on 14-May-91 at 1552 UTC.

The current series of NOAA satellites transmit APT on the following VHF
frequencies:

NOAA- 9: 137.620 MHz
NOAA-10: 137.500 MHz
NOAA-11: 137.620 MHz

Odd numbered NOAA satellites can be copied during the mid-afternoon and
early morning hours.  Even numbered NOAAs can be copied during the mid-
morning and mid-evening hours, local time.


* NOAA NEWS *
=============
NOAA is developing a directory of resources for earth observation
in education.  The directory is one of several educational
projects NOAA is undertaking as part of International Space Year
(ISY) - 1992.  The directory will serve as a resource on how
imagery from environmental satellites is being used in schools to
enhance learning.  The core of the directory will consist of a
listing of schools worldwide that use real time satellite imagery
with a brief description of how the imagery is used in classroom
instruction.  In addition, the directory will contain a section
on curriculum materials developed by teachers, a listing of
current manufacturers of hardware and software for receiving and
processing satellite images, and a bibliography on educational
applications of environmental satellites.

Any information that the users of NOAA satellite data, can
provide in support of this effort would be greatly appreciated.
If you know of any schools or teachers who are using environmental
satellite data in their curriculum, please let NOAA know.
Drop a letter or postcard to NOAA Educational Affairs
Office, Federal Building #4 Room 0158, Washington, DC  20233; or
call 301-763-4690 (24 hours a day) and leave a message with Ms.
Arlette Washington.


* TNX QSL! *
============
A special thanks to all those who sent QSLs and letters to SpaceNews:

PA0HTR : Henk Kanon, Den Helder, Netherlands
WA1STO : Rosalie White, ARRL, Newington, Connecticut, USA

...and e-mail messages:

KZ1Z, KA2SZO, K3ORC, KC6GWQ


* FEEDBACK WELCOMED *
=====================
Feedback regarding SpaceNews can be directed to the editor (John) via any
of the following paths:

INTERNET : [e-mail]
PACKET   : KD2BD @ NN2Z.NJ.USA.NA
UUCP     : ...uunet!rutgers!ka2qhd!kd2bd

MAIL     : John A. Magliacane, KD2BD
           Department of Electronics Technology
           Advanced Technology Center
           Brookdale Community College
           765 Newman Springs Road
           Lincroft, New Jersey 07738
           U.S.A.



/EX
--
John A. Magliacane                 FAX  : [phone]
Electronics Technology Department  AMPR : KD2BD @ NN2Z.NJ.USA.NA
Brookdale Community College        UUCP : ...!rutgers!ka2qhd!kd2bd
Lincroft, NJ  07738  USA           VOICE: [phone] ext 607

------------------------------

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Date: 2 Feb 91 08:33:01 GMT
From: zephyr.ens.tek.com!tektronix!sequent!crg5![e-mail]  (Nick Szabo)
Organization: Sequent Computer Systems, Inc
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V13 #082
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In SPACE Digest V13 #050
> Nick Szabo:  writes :

>....While I
>will not argue the value of communications and sensing ability in orbit, I am a
>little slow to understand the benefits civilization will reap using only robot
>probes.....

"Benefits" roughly equate to "value", last time I checked Webster's.


>As far as I understand, no one has evolved to withstand vacuum and
>gamma radiation.  This would suggest to me the *necessity* of a MANNED SPACE
>STATION.  I.e., a place in space that humans live. (more than a few minutes)

OK, let's define terms:

Space Station: Small: crew of 1-20; structure launched from Earth.
In need of continual resupply from Earth.

Space Colony/Settlement:  Large; inhabitants (not crew) of 100+.  Probably
made from indigenous space resources rather than launched from Earth.
To the extent that it is dependent on Earth, it is capable of producing
export goods for sale on Earth.

What I am saying:

* Space stations are over 1 million times the cost of equivalent Earth-based
  living quarters;
* Space stations are not efficient (compared to the alternatives) for
  microgravity research, life science research, planetary exploration,
  or any other conceived use, separately or combined;
* In particular space stations, because they are 6 orders of magnitude
  away from the economic scale needed for space settlements, and because
  life science research can be done more effectively on free-flying
  platforms like LDEF, are not a prerequisite for the building of
  space settlements;
* Space stations are diverting funds from more worthwhile projects and
  causing planetary exploration initiatives to be misdesigned;
* The concept of a space station, an idea dreamed up before computers,
  lasers, nuclear power, and even before liquid-fuel rockets were
  developed, should be laid to a peaceful rest.


>Perhaps you envision a planetary station, yet in terms of energy (sunlight
>availability, mostly) a planet costs more than open space to live on, and, it
>costs more to move to/from.

A colony in space must import/export large amounts materials for
construction/maintenence/supply, so there are gravity costs with either
choice.  The time has not yet come to decide between space vs. planetary
habitats.  That is a choice for the settlers themselves to make based on
the knowledge and technology of their era.  They should no more follow
our advice, than we should follow the advice of early-20th-century SF
writers with their space stations.


>Ignoring the fact that there is no way to judge the cost of previous moves
>to new environmnets (fish-ampibian, or tree-savanna), let's try the next best
>thing.

Fish did not make a conscious choice to become amphibians, and this is
probably true also of our chimp/human common ancestor.  They certainly
did not spend any money to do so.  :-)


>How much did it cost for a 4-wheel horse-driven carrige in the 1450's
>(luxury travel) when magellan set out across the sea?  And how much did he pay
>for his fleet (pioneering a new environment) most of which did not return, and
>none of which was 'economical'?

OK, crack open the history books.  The major voyages (in terms of $$$ spent)
of that period were not those of Columbus or Magellan, but De Gama.  De
Gama sailed around Africa, trading spices from India.  He replaced a
tortuous, friction- and bandit- filled land route to the Orient with a
sea route.  By 1500, the price of spices in Lisbon was 1/5 that in
Venice (which dominated European access to the land route).   In other
words, 400% gross profit margins for the Portugese on a good which, in the
days before refrigeration, was a significant fraction of the cost of
eating, which in the days before industrialization was the dominant factor
in GNP.

The voyages of Columbus and Magellan were spinoffs of De Gama.  All
were trying to find routes to the Orient.  De Gama made most of the
money and got most of the boats.  Columbus underestimated the
circumference of the Earth and missed out on the spice trade (the
gold & silver trade did not become significant until 20 years later,
and was not the motivation of the original voyages).

Even small nations such as Portugal fielded dozens to hundreds of
large ships, each with crews of up to 100.  Each ship cost, in %GNP
terms, about 1/100 of what a space station costs a modern nation.
In other words, space stations are several orders of magnitude more
costly to our society than Renassaince ships were to theirs.


>Mir has produced the BEST data on long-term effects on humans of the space
>environment, which data will be quite necessary for the proper design of both
>habitats and transportation systems (not to mention group interaction, effects
>of isolation, etc...)

Given the inefficiencies of human habitiation in space with current
technology paradigms, there is little need for human study at this
moment.  Nevertheless, because of the man-in-space bias we have much more
data than we need.  LDEF and other free-flyers have produced much long-term
life-sciences data, at a much lower cost than a space station.

Human biology in space at this stage is near the bottom of the
priority list of knowledge and skills needed for humans to develop
space settlements.   First develop a capability to mine and manufacture
materials in space, so we can lower than cost of human habitation in
space 4-6 orders of magnitude, then let's talk about the details of
human biology in space.


>>Conclusions are not "innocent" until proven so.
>...Not Innocent?
>   What, we all have a conspiracy to waste money on something that
>   you don't like because of your lack of vision?

Look, you are jumping on me for voicing my opinions.  You think
me guilty for coming to conclusions that differ from some other's.
For simply following the conclusions of others, take your own medicine.


>And yes, it is lack of vision.

Who between us is mimicking what we have been told without thinking
about it?   Who between us is repeating the same old tired failed nostrums?
Did you ever stop to think that vision involves _seeing_, in other words
_observation_ and _thought_: not mimicry, which when repeated often
enough becomes the opossite of vision; the blind leading the blind.


>....Sorry nick, but I can't accept the assumptions that you use to reach
>your conclusions.

You haven't even addressed my assumptions.


>I think your assumptions are a little early in the program. Maybe
>if we didn't have a Space program run by tired congressionals.  I'm learning
>Japanese.

Nihongo de hanasanakereba narimasen ka?


--
Nick Szabo            [e-mail]
Embrace Change...  Keep the Values...  Hold Dear the Laughter...

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V13 #124
*******************